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Post by Crowzerplorodon on Mar 10, 2009 20:50:56 GMT -5
Again, I'm not suggesting we cut them out completely. PineClan does have a believer who could easily get a message from StarClan. [/size] |
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Post by pridesin on Mar 10, 2009 20:51:42 GMT -5
No. It's not. D:
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Then it's like... like...
It's like a squid. >: It just is.
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Post by Rolo on Mar 10, 2009 20:55:57 GMT -5
Tries.
They try.
What if PineClan does not want help.
By asserting themselves as a strong clan with no belief in Starry Cats, PineClan has proven to be a force to be reckoned with. And they did it all without belief in StarClan.
It was even started (more or less) by a ForestClan cat who did not believe.
If someone does not want help and has brought themselves to the top as a strong standing individual (or in this case, clan) and has shown that they have no interest in help what-so-ever, why would someone bother?
I already said that StarClan could contact a believing cat though. There is one of those in PineClan.
I believe they should contact some unsure cats too, those who are on the brink of believing. Taking a step back from the theology of it all, which would the members prefer? An all out no-Starclan pretty conflict-less rp or one where they have an ability to chose whether their cat is unsure and perhaps get an answer to their prayers that Starclan is real. If a cat in Pineclan (perhaps born there and brought up as a non-believer) truely wishes they were there, or believe they could be, wouldn't Starclan answer those prayers? I'm not saying Starclan will contact the dead-certain... only the uncertain. Perhaps we could meet in the middle, though? For now, when almost certainly the cats will be dead non-believers, the cats do not get many dreams (no trying to make them believe, but some prophecies to keep them on the same level as other clans through a believer). But later in the rp when things are founded and the norm is established, we go through periods of time where Starclan makes an effort to convert Pineclan, and then other times when Pineclan is not contacted very much at all? |
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Post by Rolo on Mar 10, 2009 21:04:57 GMT -5
I'm suggesting that that won't work... because we need the uncertainty within Pineclan and the occational non-believer. Just as cats lose faith, they can gain it too. It won't happen often, yah, but there will always be a few that it happens to.
Look at No-ears, he used to believe in Starclan and now he doesn't. Equally, a cat who doesn't could come to believe through a chain of events... I don't think we should limit the dreams to believers as then we would not get this often.
I'm fighting NOT from a theologists point of view, but I'm looking at what members might want to do in the future. I don't think we should rule out starclan dreams to non-believers completely, just limit them massively.
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Post by Crowzerplorodon on Mar 10, 2009 21:11:18 GMT -5
Conflict-less?
Conflict-less?
You have got to be kidding me. PineClan without conflict?
I'm pretty sure y'all have been blind, so let me post this again :
THERE IS A BELIEVER IN PINECLAN. THERE ARE UNSURE CATS.
Hopefully y'all can see that now.
The believer could easily recieve dreams from StarClan. StarClan could tell the believer who the unsure cats are and get the believer to help persuade the cat.
Honestly I have no belief in God. And if I had a dream where God appeared and was like "Hey, wazzzup? I'm real." I'd blame it on my own imagination.
The non-believers would too. As would the unsure cats (because it'd be too "Ok, irony much?" for them same for the hopeful cats).
Now if a real cat came to them to tell them, then yeah, they'd probably be a little more open to this.
But PineClan is not going to be conflict-less with little to no contact with StarClan. There is more to clan-conflicts than StarClan.
uh, remember though. StarClan =/= God.
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Post by Rolo on Mar 10, 2009 21:21:19 GMT -5
Yes Crow.
I meant inner conflict. Why can we not have a non-believer or an unsure cat get a dream just to shake things up? Not for the CLAN but in individual members.
That's my entire point.
The non-believers will shrug off dreams anyway, so it won't do any harm to the main plotline to give dreams. Just like you'd shrug off a dream with God telling you he is real, so will Pineclan dead-set non-believers.
By suggesting what I am, I think it will give members more choice over what path they want their cats to take in Pineclan. It's easy enough to lose belief in other clans, without direct Starclan dreams I doubt unsure cats in Pineclan will become any surer as it's not adequate 'proof' to take another cat's word. Some members may want their cat to be converted or to get dreams for their cats development.
Basically, I'm just saying leave it up to the individual member. If they want their cat to have a dream (and apply properly for it) fine. Just make sure that they don't effect the main plot.
We need other members to comment on this.
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Post by pteriforever on Mar 10, 2009 21:28:31 GMT -5
The thing I'm worried about:
Gatherings.
Gatherings are practically DESIGNED to honour StarClan, So, when the other clans were talking of StarClan, most of which does not concern PineClan, what would PineClan do? Not turn up and leave the others to do the gathering(and risk losing their status as a clan), or would they go there being very quiet, or pretending to believe, or what? I'm sure they wouldn't want to go to a meeting where StarClan is the main thing discussed. AND since they don't believe in StarClan, they aren't bound by the Truce, and so if they wanted they *could* attack the other clans, and so...
You get my point. Chaos will happen if we don't do something about the gatherings.
Other than that, I agree with Rolo.
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Post by Ten on Mar 10, 2009 21:54:48 GMT -5
"Gatherings are practically DESIGNED to honour StarClan,"
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orly? I don't remember that.
I thought it was more of a "hey guys, this is what's up with your neighbors  " meeting.
"risk losing their status as a clan"
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What do you mean? If PineClan left, everyone else would say, "okay, they're not a clan anymore"? And even if they did say that, why would PineClan care?
"I'm sure they wouldn't want to go to a meeting where StarClan is the main thing discussed."
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Since when is StarClan the main thing discussed? Is there really that much to say about them?
"if they wanted they *could* attack the other clans,"
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That's perfect.
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Post by pridesin on Mar 10, 2009 22:29:24 GMT -5
Crow, maybe we should get member input on this as Rolo suggested. Perhaps a poll?
And also, why would Pineclan attack the other clans? Chances are, they're about the same size as the other clans, so they wouldn't stand a chance attacking them.
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Post by Rolo on Mar 11, 2009 11:33:25 GMT -5
Pteri, I get your concern but Pineclan's nature makes it a non-issue.
The gathering was made for the cats to discuss clan issues at a time and place where they would not put themselves at risk. It wasn't done to honour Starclan.
Pineclan ARE bound by the truce technically, as they vow not to attack anyone at a gathering. However, unlike the other clans, they don't believe Starclan will punish them for breaking the rules. However, Pineclan believe in honour and fighting fairly, they would NEVER break the truce. They see the advantage of being able to talk with other clans safely.
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" meeting.
We have a cbox again and we're opening the place up as a closed, members only rp
Jan 12, 2015 10:25:54 GMT -5
We have a cbox again and we're opening the place up as a closed, members only rp
Jan 12, 2015 10:25:54 GMT -5