Post by Ten on Feb 15, 2010 22:19:33 GMT -5
CREATIVITY, CHEX MIX, AND OTHER IMPORTANT ISSUES:
an intense discussion of kittypets and creative license
stupid title brought to you by the lady ten
discussion brought to you by cbox commentary
on an article entitled warrior blood and feline racism
Previously, on CCMAOII:
sent from ten to fluffy via pm in response to cbox posts:
ten said:
"Yes. I'm drawing from both your article and this conversation."
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My thesis was that kittypet upbringing is a negative trait. You disagree?
"I do not agree with all you say."
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So what do you disagree with, miss?
"PEOPLE SHOULD BE ABLE TO RP WHATEVER THE HECK THEY WANT."
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And they are.
"CREATIVITY IS NOT RIGID."
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You just said it wasn't tangible, so of course it isn't rigid.
Another question for you.
Where in my article did I mention role playing?
from fluffy, in response
It can be. It can also be a strength to draw upon. A kittypet upbringing can give knowledge that Clan cats don't have. Also, to leave that kittypet upbring, to leave a place where you know you will always have food and warmth and comfort; to venture into the wild and join a Clan where you will not always eat, where you will be cold, you will fight, and you, in all liklihood, will be discriminated against, takes courage. If a cat is willing to leave that great life for Clan life, and stick with it, whom can doubt their loyalty?
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I disagree with what I've stated I disagreed with. I'm not going to reiterate everything I've said. If you can't understand, more's the pity to you.
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And you object to it.
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You seem to think it is. You seem to think that creativity can be measured by whether one plays a cat of warrior blood or not. You seem to think that creativity is a set thing, when in fact, it is not. You insult Erin Hunter's way of writing and plots (which, I agree, are rather out-there and often inaccurate), but you forget the essential core: they are works of FICTION. Erin Hunter did not state in any way that her books were THE WORD when it came to cats. And yet, some people reject what she has written about HER OWN FANTASY WORLD and substitute it with their 'purist, traditionalist' ways, because of how 'wrong' she was. So? It's her books! She can say that cats have magical unicorn horns and transform into ninjas for all I care, people can RP that if they want.
Not to argue against traditionalism, as this is a traditionalist RP, and I am indeed RPing in it. I don't think it is inferior in any way to the more out-there RPs there are, it is simply a style of RP some people prefer. Me? I joined here because the people all seemed to be far more literate than the other Warriors RPs I've seen. I prefer literacy and length in my RPs, and one-sentence roleplays drive me absolutely bonkers. I don't care about the whole traditionalism thing. It's fine either way, I'll fit in with either end of the spectrum, as long as I'm having fun and RPing with a good bunch of people.
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No where. But through the C-Box, it has become about roleplay.
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I disagree with what I've stated I disagreed with. I'm not going to reiterate everything I've said. If you can't understand, more's the pity to you.
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And you object to it.
---
You seem to think it is. You seem to think that creativity can be measured by whether one plays a cat of warrior blood or not. You seem to think that creativity is a set thing, when in fact, it is not. You insult Erin Hunter's way of writing and plots (which, I agree, are rather out-there and often inaccurate), but you forget the essential core: they are works of FICTION. Erin Hunter did not state in any way that her books were THE WORD when it came to cats. And yet, some people reject what she has written about HER OWN FANTASY WORLD and substitute it with their 'purist, traditionalist' ways, because of how 'wrong' she was. So? It's her books! She can say that cats have magical unicorn horns and transform into ninjas for all I care, people can RP that if they want.
Not to argue against traditionalism, as this is a traditionalist RP, and I am indeed RPing in it. I don't think it is inferior in any way to the more out-there RPs there are, it is simply a style of RP some people prefer. Me? I joined here because the people all seemed to be far more literate than the other Warriors RPs I've seen. I prefer literacy and length in my RPs, and one-sentence roleplays drive me absolutely bonkers. I don't care about the whole traditionalism thing. It's fine either way, I'll fit in with either end of the spectrum, as long as I'm having fun and RPing with a good bunch of people.
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No where. But through the C-Box, it has become about roleplay.
from ten
It can be. It can also be a strength to draw upon. A kittypet upbringing can give knowledge that Clan cats don't have.
Which would be useful as a Clan cat how?
Also, to leave that kittypet upbring, to leave a place where you know you will always have food and warmth and comfort; to venture into the wild and join a Clan where you will not always eat, where you will be cold, you will fight, and you, in all liklihood, will be discriminated against, takes courage.
You mean stupidity.
I disagree with what I've stated I disagreed with.
You disagree with... the statements "All people are the same" and "creativity is tangible" and "kittypets can't be interesting". Anything else?
And you object to it.
I object to what? Use quotes. I don't memorize my messages before I send them.
You seem to think that creativity can be measured by whether one plays a cat of warrior blood or not.
Nope.
You seem to think that creativity is a set thing, when in fact, it is not.
What do you mean, "set thing"?
You insult Erin Hunter's way of writing and plots (which, I agree, are rather out-there and often inaccurate), but you forget the essential core: they are works of FICTION.
Yay...?
No where. But through the C-Box, it has become about roleplay.
Because you decided it was, as I recall.
from fluffy
Well then. Say, as happened in the books, a bunch of Clan cats were captured. The former kittypet Clan pet knows how to open cages from his stint as a kittypet, opens the cages and frees the Clan cats. YAY. Or the kittypet knows how to deal with dogs. Or with people. Any number of things.
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In some cases, stupidity. In some cases, courage. Not all kittypets are the same.
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*sigh* Never mind all that. If you don't get it, you don't get it.
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Well then, go look over your sent messages. I can't be expected to keep your words for you.
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Good.
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Thing - n.
1. An entity, an idea, or a quality perceived, known, or thought to have its own existence.
2.
1. The real or concrete substance of an entity.
2. An entity existing in space and time.
3. An inanimate object.
3. Something referred to by a word, a symbol, a sign, or an idea; a referent.
Used in the context of #1.
Set - set 1 (st)
v. set, set·ting, sets
v.tr.
1. To put in a specified position; place: set a book on a table.
2. To put into a specified state: set the prisoner at liberty.
3.
a. To put into a stable position: set the fence post into a bed of concrete.
b. To fix firmly or in an immobile manner: He set his jaw and concentrated on flying the plane through the storm.
Used in the context of of 3a, a stable state.
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You don't get it. FICTION. Meaning that she can do WHATEVER SHE DEM WANTS WITH THEM. There are no RULES.
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You were talking about it in the context of roleplay at first.
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In some cases, stupidity. In some cases, courage. Not all kittypets are the same.
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*sigh* Never mind all that. If you don't get it, you don't get it.
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Well then, go look over your sent messages. I can't be expected to keep your words for you.
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Good.
---
Thing - n.
1. An entity, an idea, or a quality perceived, known, or thought to have its own existence.
2.
1. The real or concrete substance of an entity.
2. An entity existing in space and time.
3. An inanimate object.
3. Something referred to by a word, a symbol, a sign, or an idea; a referent.
Used in the context of #1.
Set - set 1 (st)
v. set, set·ting, sets
v.tr.
1. To put in a specified position; place: set a book on a table.
2. To put into a specified state: set the prisoner at liberty.
3.
a. To put into a stable position: set the fence post into a bed of concrete.
b. To fix firmly or in an immobile manner: He set his jaw and concentrated on flying the plane through the storm.
Used in the context of of 3a, a stable state.
---
You don't get it. FICTION. Meaning that she can do WHATEVER SHE DEM WANTS WITH THEM. There are no RULES.
---
You were talking about it in the context of roleplay at first.
from ten
Well then. Say, as happened in the books, a bunch of Clan cats were captured. The former kittypet Clan pet knows how to open cages from his stint as a kittypet,
Nope. Cats don't have thumbs.
Or the kittypet knows how to deal with dogs. Or with people.
What do you mean?
In some cases, courage.
In some cases courage does what?
If you don't get it,
If I don't get what, miss?
Well then, go look over your sent messages. I can't be expected to keep your words for you.
Quotes are nice.
Thing - n.
1. An entity, an idea, or a quality perceived, known, or thought to have its own existence.
2.
1. The real or concrete substance of an entity.
2. An entity existing in space and time.
3. An inanimate object.
3. Something referred to by a word, a symbol, a sign, or an idea; a referent.
Used in the context of #1.
Set - set 1 (st)
v. set, set·ting, sets
v.tr.
1. To put in a specified position; place: set a book on a table.
2. To put into a specified state: set the prisoner at liberty.
3.
a. To put into a stable position: set the fence post into a bed of concrete.
b. To fix firmly or in an immobile manner: He set his jaw and concentrated on flying the plane through the storm.
Used in the context of of 3a, a stable state.
1. An entity, an idea, or a quality perceived, known, or thought to have its own existence.
2.
1. The real or concrete substance of an entity.
2. An entity existing in space and time.
3. An inanimate object.
3. Something referred to by a word, a symbol, a sign, or an idea; a referent.
Used in the context of #1.
Set - set 1 (st)
v. set, set·ting, sets
v.tr.
1. To put in a specified position; place: set a book on a table.
2. To put into a specified state: set the prisoner at liberty.
3.
a. To put into a stable position: set the fence post into a bed of concrete.
b. To fix firmly or in an immobile manner: He set his jaw and concentrated on flying the plane through the storm.
Used in the context of of 3a, a stable state.
So you're saying creativity is unstable? Like... radiation?
You don't get it. FICTION. Meaning that she can do WHATEVER SHE DEM WANTS WITH THEM.
Who?
There are no RULES.
To what? Writing? Sure there are.
You were talking about it in the context of roleplay at first.
Was I? In the article?
from fluffy
With their TEETH, perhaps.
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Kittypet knows that a certain dog, for example, gets scared easily so you can chase them off instead of running in terror. Kittypet can pretend to be all friendly to a human as a distraction?
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You're taking little snippets of what I've said and treating them like individual points that stand on their own. READ THE REST OF THE PARAGRAPH.
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DITTO AS ABOVE.
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I'm not a fan.
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Sure, like radiation.
If you're take my quotes and twist them into something bad, I can do the same, right? Therefore, you're being supaaar-racist and elitist by arguing against kittypets.
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... Did you read the rest of the paragraph? ERIN. HUNTER.
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There are rules to good writing (good writing defined as writing others want to read), but if you're writing a story, you don't need to write good unless you plan on forcing others to read your book. (Of course, some horribly written books still get into the mass market. Like Twilight.) But there are no rules to FICTION whatsoever. People can make up whatever they want.
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In the Cbox.
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Kittypet knows that a certain dog, for example, gets scared easily so you can chase them off instead of running in terror. Kittypet can pretend to be all friendly to a human as a distraction?
---
You're taking little snippets of what I've said and treating them like individual points that stand on their own. READ THE REST OF THE PARAGRAPH.
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DITTO AS ABOVE.
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I'm not a fan.
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Sure, like radiation.
If you're take my quotes and twist them into something bad, I can do the same, right? Therefore, you're being supaaar-racist and elitist by arguing against kittypets.---
... Did you read the rest of the paragraph? ERIN. HUNTER.
---
There are rules to good writing (good writing defined as writing others want to read), but if you're writing a story, you don't need to write good unless you plan on forcing others to read your book. (Of course, some horribly written books still get into the mass market. Like Twilight.) But there are no rules to FICTION whatsoever. People can make up whatever they want.
---
In the Cbox.
from ten
With their TEETH, perhaps.
Uh, no.
Kittypets don't have any handy skills to benefit Clans.
That's just how it works.
Kittypet knows that a certain dog, for example, gets scared easily so you can chase them off instead of running in terror. Kittypet can pretend to be all friendly to a human as a distraction?
Anything requiring those tasks (why anything would is beyond me) wouldn't require a kittypet's knowledge. Warriors can figure those things out for themselves.
You're taking little snippets of what I've said and treating them like individual points that stand on their own. READ THE REST OF THE PARAGRAPH.
Read the rest of what paragraph?
Do you remember what you were arguing with it?
Sure, like radiation.
...Okay?
If you're take my quotes and twist them into something bad, I can do the same, right? Therefore, you're being supaaar-racist and elitist by arguing against kittypets.
Nope -- kittypets aren't a race and I'm not calling myself better than them.
... Did you read the rest of the paragraph? ERIN. HUNTER.
um, yeah, she is capable of writing whatever she wants.
...Why are you telling me this?
...if you're writing a story, you don't need to write good unless you plan on forcing others to read your book.
Isn't it the other way around?
People can make up whatever they want.
...duh? Is that all you wanted to convince me of?
In the Cbox.
Nope.
And if you're going to insist that I did, then I'd like to revoke or retract or undo whatever you think I said and now say that my article on kittypets was not telling people what to or not to role play. Permission granted?
from fluffy
Maybe in your narrow mindset they don't. I'm sure someone could creatively come up with a way a kittypet could be useful to a clan.
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Not always. Warriors =/= smarter than kittypets just because of their warrior blood.
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... I'm not even going to bother.
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It's called sarcasm.
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To reinforce the fact that she can write what she wants- and if she wants to write kittypets being introduced into the clan, so be it. It's her book, her series, her idea, not yours, not anyone else's.
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Yes, that is what I wanted to convince you of.
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Sure?
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Not always. Warriors =/= smarter than kittypets just because of their warrior blood.
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... I'm not even going to bother.
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It's called sarcasm.
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To reinforce the fact that she can write what she wants- and if she wants to write kittypets being introduced into the clan, so be it. It's her book, her series, her idea, not yours, not anyone else's.
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Yes, that is what I wanted to convince you of.
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Sure?
Now you're caught up to the present. I've decided to make a thread about this because I find it easier to keep track of things this way and it will allow others to bring in any points of their own, call me out on stuff, support Fluffy, that sort of thing.
These are my responses to Fluffy's latest message:
"I'm sure someone could creatively come up with a way a kittypet could be useful to a clan."
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Perhaps so. I'm sure someone could "creatively come up with" anything. However, looking at the effects, it's in a leader's best interests not to seek out or permit kittypets to join a Clan. That, by the way, was my general thesis (not anything about telling role players or writers what to do).
"Not always. Warriors =/= smarter than kittypets just because of their warrior blood."
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Yes, you are correct in that lineage tends not to grant superior brainpower. However, you understand that being raised as a warrior gives a cat more knowledge about being a warrior. Also, this "not always" of yours was in response to my "Warriors can figure those things out for themselves", no? In that case, why wouldn't they?
"Yes, that is what I wanted to convince you of."
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That's alright, miss, only a few dozen people have already informed me of this. Even if I hadn't known it to begin with, I'd know it by now.
We have a cbox again and we're opening the place up as a closed, members only rp